Artwork by: SMOG

Here is our second installment of KNOW YOUR SCENE where we try to shed some light on people within the hardcore punk scene that are doing good things out there that may sometimes be overlooked.


This time around we got Glen Lorieo who many may know as the drummer for both Billy Club Sandwich as well as No Redeeming Social Value. What many may not know is that Glen has been doing recording work with bands for a long time and has also done engineering work that dates back to the mid 1990's while working on the old WNYU Crucial Chaos Radio Show.  Mike Not Like You is a NJ transplant now living in New Mexico. Not Like You is a punk, skate, and hardcore fanzine as well as record label. Mike has also owned an Albuquerque area comic book store called Astro Zombies for close to 2 decades. Last but not least is NY based photographer Rich Zoeller who frequently contributes great photos from local hardcore shows to this site. Rich also travels the world taking his camera gear with him and the results are a great mix of urban landscapes to middle of nowhere nature shots. His website has plenty of examples of his great work.


In Effect salutes these 3 individuals and the many more like them that keep our music scene alive and well. More installments of Know Your Scene to follow. Stay tuned! Know Your Scene artwork by SMOG.

Graphic work by: Bas Spierings.


Photo by: Victoria Lodi

IE: Hey Glen, I've known you for a long time. Back to when you were doing sound on the old WNYU (college) “Crucial Chaos” Radio Show. How did you get involved with that show, what years were you there and what exactly were your responsibilities? 


Glen: Well, I ended up working on the show because I was a student at NYU. I had been listening to “Crucial Chaos” since I was in the 7th grade and when I found out I was going to go to NYU my only goal was to get on the show! So I started hanging out up there with Johnny Stiff and Evan Cohen. You were supposed to start on an AM show and then do phones for an FM show but Johnny Stiff handled the phones! And wouldn’t let anyone else do it! Haha. So, I would just hang out with the No Redeeming Social Value guys and John Franko who came out every week back then. (It’s funny that I ended up playing for them years later. This was where it all at started between us). I thought I would be the DJ eventually but the girl who was doing sound for the bands was in her last year at school and she didn’t want to do it anymore so I took over at the end of December 1993 and was the engineer until late 1998. My responsibilities were to book bands, set up the microphones and mix the show live on the air. I have been a recording engineer ever since! I hadn’t even thought about doing it before working on the show. I had only done some 4 track recordings of my band, Billy Club Sandwich before then. So basically going to college ruined my life!! Haha. Let that be a lesson to everyone…


IE: Where did you grow up, and how and when did you find out about hardcore?


Glen: I was born in Uptown Manhattan but I grew up in Westchester. We moved up there when I was 3 and a half. I got into hardcore through skateboarding and then getting mix tapes from friends’ older siblings. I was in 6th grade when I first was given a tape from my friend’s older sister. It had The Dead Milkmen, Dead Kennedys and The Smiths on it. Then I got JFA from her. In all honestly, none of it resonated with me at first. I was just like, “this is too crazy for me.” (Although I like both Dead bands now- but not The Smiths!) Then in 1987, the summer before I started 7th grade, another friend’s older brother made me a mix tape with Agnostic Front, Bad Brains, DRI, SOD, Cryptic Slaughter and Broken Bones. That time it totally connected with me (I don’t know if it was more timing- that I was more “ready” for it? Or just the different bands that were on it were more for me? I do love all of them still today) and that was it! I got hooked from then on! I still have that tape to this day!!

IE: What were some of the first hardcore shows you remember seeing live?


Glen: I always have confused which came first but my first two shows were both at The Anthrax in Norwalk, CT in late 1987. Both times I was going to see this funk hardcore band called, Heads Up! (still one of my favorite bands to this day!) as their drummer was like the older brother I never had. He would babysit my brother and I and taught me how to skateboard. His parents are very good friends with mine- sort of like an “aunt and uncle”. And they took me to his shows back then. They played with 7 Seconds one of the times and Absolution the other. Most of the first shows I saw were at The Anthrax. I tried to get to as many shows as I could there until it closed at the end of 1990. That is still my favorite club anywhere to this day!


IE: For a while now you have also been recording and producing albums for hardcore bands. As the years pass on by the list has grown. Can you give us a run down as to what bands and albums you have done recording/producing work with?


Glen: Wow, so many after all these years… and I’ve done a lot of other music too- mostly hip hop stuff. But hardcore-wise, a short list from over the years: I recorded and mixed Yuppicide’s “American Oblivion” and “Regret Revenge Repeat” albums when they reunited, Crown Of Thornz’ last 7” “Nothing But Tragedy” I recorded but did not mix it, I did all of Billy Club Sandwich’s recordings, some stuff for No Redeeming Social Value, Loser Sometimes Wins’ demo and “Coming Out Swinging” full length, all of Red Eyed Devil’s demos and “Consequence Of Time” LP, Caught In a Trap’s “Goodnight New York” LP, Dead Blow Hammer’s 7” and Zero Rights’ “Our World” EP. Most recently I recorded but did not mix Ache’s new album “Fade Away”, and I did all of Baby Sandwiches’ “Do It Again!” 7” that just came out. And Examine and The Mugs have new full length records coming out in early 2018 that I did. I am currently working on No Redeeming Social Value’s new full length that is also due to come out in 2018.


IE: Some of the actual work is done out of your home and some in studios. What is your current setup like for recording an album or demo with a band?


Glen: Well, there are different ways to go about it depending on the budget. I can do everything at my house except for drums which I do at a few different studios. Usually, all guitars and vocals are done at my house but sometimes we do guitars at a studio if the band wants to. I also am perfectly willing to do everything at a studio if the band has the budget for it but the cheapest way to get things done is at my house. Or in a band’s practice room as we did for the Ache album. I am a Pro Tools guy all the way but I also know Logic a little bit.


IE: There are not many people like yourself that can say they have hung out in the NYHC scene for as long or as consistently as you have. From the 1980's through to today you have been consistently there. What are some of the craziest shows that you can recall in NY when you think back over the years. I know you don't have any kids but if you do have them what are some of the stories that you are gonna tell them about where their jaw drops to the floor while you are telling them?


Glen: Ha, thanks Chris! I guess that’s true as I have never “taken any time off” all these years. Month to month I may not get to all of the shows but I have never stayed away for any period of time. For better or worse, I am a lifer!


So, back in 1990/91 when I started going to shows in the city they were ALL crazy! All the big shows at The (new) Ritz, The Academy, The Marquee and Roseland were pretty wild affairs back then. You had to know who was who and what was going down and just keep it moving! But one of the craziest sets at a small show ever was Everybody Gets Hurt’s set when Billy Club Sandwich, Southpaw and Cold Front played with them at Dr. Shay’s on Long Island on 4/26/98. The whole crew came out for that one and people just went bananas for EGH’s set! It was all friends just throwing each other around (James Dijan literally picked up Keith GFY at one point and just threw him into the corner of the pit! haha) and crazy pile-ons and holes were kicked in the walls and the ceiling too!?! I think it was the last show at that venue because of it? But it was closing anyway. Chris Bee (EGH) ran the length of the bar and jumped off during Cold Front’s set! And the owner tried to chase after him through the crowd but Malone BCS and I just closed up on him and blocked him from getting to Chris. Haha. I put up video of “Homefront NYC” from that set on You Tube.


Brian the singer from Neglect slicing his throat with a razor blade at The Wetlands was pretty special?! I thought he had faked it but then he started jabbing at the cut and got it bleeding again while he was singing?! That was nuts…


Another wild set was when BCS played Lil Gregg from EGH/Terror Ave/Red Eyed Devil’s tribute show in 2012. We hadn’t played in 2 years and we jumped up un-announced and played 3 songs and people just lost their shit! That was a pretty ignorant crowd reaction! Haha There’s video of that on You Tube as well.


IE: Besides your recording work with bands you are also the drummer for No Redeeming Social Value and Billy Club Sandwich.  What are both of those bands currently up to?


Glen: BCS had taken 6 years off from 2010-2016 due to some personal issues but we reunited last year to play the Black ‘N Blue Bowl in NYC back in May 2016. We weren’t sure how far it was gonna go after that but we’ve managed to play 19 shows so far around NYC (including. NJ, Long Island and Upstate NY), PA, Florida, London and Europe. Since coming back we’ve played the BNB Bowl, FYA Fest, Tsunami Fest, Toxic Fest and Ieper Fest. That’s been great as we never really got the respect from out of town shows/promoters like that before we split up. So it’s been cool to finally get these opportunities. We also have opened up for Sheer Terror, Brujeria, Candiria and Skarhead in the last year and a half. Also, great opportunities. Now, we are trying to write new songs that will hopefully come out in late 2018…(or 2019 I guess knowing us… haha). We are currently all living in THREE different states so it’s gonna be a struggle but we are trying to make it happen!


And NRSV has been taking it slow due to some changes in various members’ lives (new jobs and new babies) but we have also been working on our new record for over a year now! We just have vocals left to record and we are hoping to get it out by summer 2018. We also have a new song coming out on one of those Pitchfork Clothing split 7”s that they have been doing. That should be out by the spring/summer.


Below: Young Glen meeting Mr T

IE: What other bands have you been a part of over the years?


Glen: Hardcore-wise only Setback back in the mid-90s. BCS was my first band! I have jammed with other people but nothing ever came from any of that. I have also played in various rock, rap and R&B/pop bands over the years.

IE: I can't finish this interview up without asking you about something you are also well known for within the NYHC scene. Your hair. You used to rock the shaved head for a while but for a really long time you have had the full afro. When did you start growing the fro and how long does it take to get it where it's at these days. Got any good stories, tales, or anything to add about one of the most original/noticeable hair styles in the genre? Thanks for your time Glen! 


Glen: Haha! Yeah I’ve been a skinhead at points since I graduated High School in 1993 and now I just say that I am a ”very lazy skinhead”! haha. I grew my hair out in ‘96, ‘98 and 2000. And shaved it in between. Then I didn’t grow it out again until late 2007 when NRSV went on tour to Europe for two weeks and since I missed shaving it for a week I decided to just let it go and see what would happen… Man, I don’t know how long it takes but let’s just say that there was always a very long (at least 6 months) “awkward stage” each time I grew it out! “Good stories” is a weird one to answer but it used to be very annoying with drunks in bars just touching my hair without asking and then saying “It’s real?!” (I guess they all thought it was a wig?) That’s usually what got me to shave it off every year- I just got fed up with it eventually. (and having my friends get angry and want to fight the person). This time around hasn’t been as bad maybe because once it started graying out it was less likely to “be a wig”? But I have had two drunk girls try to “take my wig off”!? That SUCKED! Haha. People still touch it without asking (or even saying “Hello” first) but it happens less than it did in the ‘90's. I actually had to reprimand a girl in a bar the other night for trying to take my afro pick out un-announced?! I really don’t get why people go around just touching strangers?! That is certainly NOT something that I ever do! Haha. My hair ain’t what it was in the ‘90's but it is what it is… People ask me often, “Why do you do that?” Because I can…Thanks for the interview Chris! It was fun…



IE: Hey Mike. Let’s start off with a short introduction on who you are… You are an East Coast guy (NJ) now living in Albuquerque (ABQ) NM. When did you get into hardcore/punk and while you lived here “back East” were you doing anything like zines, a label, bands? When did you leave the area and why ABQ of all places?


Mike: Yeah I'm a long lost East coaster. I grew up in North Jersey, got into punk/hardcore in like ‘83 through skating and through a friend's old brother who used to talk about the Sex Pistols, Reagan Youth and a few other bands. I went to my first show in ‘87. I did my first zine R.O.S.(Really Obnoxious Skaters) in 1985. It lasted 2 issues and covered skating in North Jersey and hardcore. I played in a band or 2 that never went anywhere other than the basement we practiced in. I put my time in over the years doing everything from booking shows, being a roadie for bands, doing a radio show at Stockton College in South Jersey where I also helped to run Positive Force AC (similar in concept to Positive Force DC), I worked at the label Gern Blandsten, worked at a record store in North Jersey, and even owned a record store called Sound On Sound with a few friends near New Brunswick in the mid 90’s.    


The winter of 95/96 if you remember was just awful back home. Snow, rain, sleet and more just day after day. I was living with 6 dudes in a crappy apartment in New Brunswick and felt trapped. I was only leaving the house to go to work and to walk to the pizza place on the corner. I had a friend from middle school who had moved here and always talked to me about it. One day I called her and her boyfriend and said find me an apartment, I'm coming.



IE: When you got out to ABQ what did you find locally as far as punk rock and hardcore?


Mike: There was a cool record store called Mind Over Matter around the corner from my apartment when I moved here that was all about punk and hardcore so that was cool. They even did a few shows with bands like Lifetime in the shop so I got a few reminders of home. Shortly after I moved here, I went to a huge city event called Summerfest. Walking down the street I came across these skinheads outside a bar all wearing Skrewdriver White Power shirts. I was speechless. I knew back home that shit didn't fly and we'd fight any Nazi we saw, yet here I was in a very multicultural place, predominately Hispanic, and yet these goons were walking around not worried in the least. That was strange to me and really turned me off to things here for a while. Over time I started to go to more and more shows and realized bands either played here once and never came back or certain bands like The Business or Agnostic Front would play like every 6 months. Way different than what I was used to back East but I've had to take what I could get over the year.


IE: In the Not Like You timeline the fanzine came first. What was that spark or moment where you thought to yourself that you wanted to start a zine?


Mike: I had been thinking about doing a zine again for a while. I had done some reviews and interviews for a music magazine that was published out here for a little while but I had the itch to get more involved. I was looking for a way to be connected while feeling so far removed from everything I knew about hardcore and decided my midlife crisis was going to be starting a zine. Shows were few and far between here but I missed being connected to everything so Not Like You was born.


IE: Tell us about the zine. How many issues have you put out and what kind of content is in there, what kinds of bands are you covering and what have been some of your favorite interviews so far?


Mike: The zine has actually had 8 issues so far (7 numbered issues and an all photo issue).  My concept with the zine is simple, yet selfish. Cover the bands/skaters I have an interest in. I don't want to interview a band just because they're a big band or the flavor of the month. It really is a selfish endeavor in that I interview the people that interest me or I'm curious about. I interview newer and older bands. I have interviewed everyone from Ian Mackaye to Backtrack, from Eddie Leeway to The Faction. Punk, hardcore, skate rock, I love all of it and depending on who will take the time to actually do the interviews. I try to get everyone involved. I also cover a bunch of skating. Sometimes I interview an old school skater for an issue but I also started a section called “20 Questions” where I interview a couple of newer skaters with a set of questions to mix things up each issue. My favorite interviews were Ian Mackaye, he took the time to answer so many questions and talk about some cool Dischord history with me, talking politics with Joey Shithead of DOA, and for issue 2 I interviewed a bunch of old skate rock bands. That was awesome for me and something I had always wanted to do.


IE: Next came the label and you have 20 something releases out so far in like what, 3 years? Same question for the label as with the zine. What bands are you putting out? What have been some of your favorites? Please tell us more about the label.


Mike: Yeah it’s been about 3 and a half years for the label. It actually started as a concept between myself and Tony Rettman, who's been a friend for years. We were talking about starting a reissue label called No Idols. We started to come up with some ideas but he had begun working on the NYHC book and he had too much going on so I renamed the label Not Like You and took off running. The label is the same concept as the zine. I release newer and older bands... punk, hardcore, skate rock, whatever I like. Again it's almost selfish but I decided early on to only release bands I liked. Regardless of if a band sells 5 or 500 copies I'm stoked to work with them. That way it always feels like a success to me. And I'm absolutely stoked to work with every single band on the label. Highlights for me were working with King Face, Vicious Circle, and the biggest one for me was The Faction record. I had wanted to put that out since it came out on tape in ‘85. 30 years later I was able to release it and it still blows my mind. 15 year old me would never believe the cool shit he'd get to grow up and be a part of. And I've been lucky to work with some great newer bands like PSO, Point Blank, Combatant, Laughing Stock and so many others. So many cool people that have welcomed me into their world and taken a chance on myself and the label. I tend to release vinyl, but a couple things have been released on CD. Most are in editions of 500, a few have been 1000 copies but those had multiple color versions. Upcoming projects include a King Face 1 sided 12",  Enuf demo 1 sided 12", Ghoul Squad unreleased Pusmort LP, Against the Wall discography, Nine Lives LP, Odd Man Out reissue LP featuring Steve Caballero, and some other stuff in the works too.




IE: On top of these two ventures you also own a comic book store in ABQ as well. Can you tell us how you got into that? Do you bring some of the punk rock and hardcore flavor into the store for sale and perhaps other types of things like band events, in stores, singings or anything like that?


Mike: Yeah the shop is called Astro-Zombies and its going on 19 years. It all came about from a chance conversation at work one day where a friend was talking about what this city needed and the idea for a vintage 80's arcade came up. Things snowballed into bigger ideas until the shop as it was at the time came to be. I have definitely carried my DIY punk attitude into doing business and over time the Not Like You distro has become a full blown record section inside the shop. It's crazy to think how long it's been here and that this is what I do for a living. I'm very blessed that all my hard work paid off but without the support of the community and my incredible staff the shop wouldn't be half of what it is.


Young Mike Not Like You

IE: When I Googled the Astro Zombies address I noticed your block was pretty colorful and had some interesting businesses on it. Is ABQ “home” for you now and what should visitors to the area check out as far as punk rock goes and maybe even stuff beyond that that is just cool and unique to the area?


Mike: The shop is located in a neighborhood called Nob Hill. It’s the last vestige of independently owned businesses in the city. Lots of boutiques, small shops, and other cool small shops surround my store and many of us have very colorfully painted buildings. The whole side of the shop is painted in a huge superhero mural done by local artist Dave Briggs. It’s an incredible piece that took him 2 and a half months to complete. It's actually won 2 worldwide awards in the comic industry for best store signage. Ultimately they are accolades for the artist but it sure is nice being the home to his masterpiece!!


Although I have lived here for 21+ years Jersey will always be home. It just never left me and I hope one day I'll make it back for good. Anyone travelling out here there are a few clubs that do shows and one of the locals puts on some VFW shows too, which is always cool to see. It seems like throughout the years there's always been someone willing to step up here and try to make things happen. There's a cool one screen theater up the street we do projects with sometimes. We've brought some films like “Salad Days”, Descendents documentary and the HR doc here. Starting in January we will be doing a punk rock speakeasy there too. Should be a cool time. There's tons of skate parks here and ABQ is also home to the world famous Indian School Ditch. If you ever find yourself in ABQ stop by the shop and say hi. I'll let you know what's going on at the time and give you the insider tour.


IE: Thanks for your time, anything else to add? Keep up the good work!


Mike: Chris thank you so much for all the support.  Having read In Effect from the very first issues it's great to be included all these years later.



IE: Hey Rich, please introduce yourself. Who are you, where did you grow up, where do you live now and how long have you been going to hardcore shows?  


Rich: What's up In Effect, My name is Rich Zoeller, I’m a New York based photographer born and raised and currently living on Long Island.  As far as hardcore goes it all started in the 80's for me when I first picked up a skateboard. As a kid skating with the locals, I was introduced to hardcore bands such as Bad Brains, Murphy's Law, Token Entry.... and the list goes on and on. I was so blown away at how aggressive the style of the music was and from that point forward it was a part of me and I never looked back. I have been going to shows for many years, gonna say since the late 80's or so.  Unfortunately at that time, photography was not yet a thing for me. I took some photography classes in high school and never really pursued it until the early 2000's when I picked up my 1st digital camera and from that point on it was history.  




IE: When did you first start taking photos at live concerts and what was the spark that made you want to do it in the first place? Were there other photographers that you would see at shows or see their photos online that influenced you?


Rich: Well it all started about 2012. While attending the shows I started taking notice of certain photographers in attendance and then seeing their work up on social media, saying to myself let's give this a go. That was pretty much the spark for me. I would always bring a point and shoot camera to shows with me prior to 2012, as it was a just for memories type of thing. When I started shooting shows on a regular basis, I found that this could really be a thing for me outside my regular type work. I noticed after a little while of shooting shows that my work was getting attention on social media and as well from many different bands such as Leeway NYC, King Ly Chee from Hong Kong and others. I have had the pleasure to do some work with them as well. There are a few photographers that I’d like to thank and that have influenced my work such as Aga Hairesis, Jammi York, Ken Salerno and Glen E. Friedman and the list goes on. A big thanks to you as well Chris for helping me get my work out there. I am very grateful. 




IE: One thing I notice about you is that you are rarely in a safe spot on the stage and more likely to be found in the front of the stage taking photos in the crowd. Do you have any stories you can share where either you or your equipment took the brunt of some hard dancing or stage diving?


Rich: Yeah that would be me, always putting myself in situations that at times I say to myself “what the f**k am I doing here”. Whether it is on the stage or in the crowd you’re always in the danger zone, haha. Hey, the way I see it is I wanna get those photos from the crowd’s perspective to make the viewer of my work say “whoa that's pretty sick”.  A lot of the time I’m moving around to get different angles which can be tough due to the venue being small and having so many people.  Sometimes I just have to make do with what I have to work with. Ha-ha the second part of this question is one I’d really not want to talk or think about, but yes I’ve had a few very close calls with taking blunt hits to either myself or my gear. Most of the time I try to be very aware of my surroundings, but that does not always work. I've personally taken a few good hits … but that's the nature of the beast when you have body's flying from all angles and at times getting way too aggressive with their dancing.


Rich with Dr. Know of the Bad Brains, 2017

IE: From dealing with you with In Effect for a while now I've come to know that you take a lot of photos and can take days if not weeks to sort through them all before you make them public. How many actual shots do you take of a given band on average and can you talk about the process that it takes to edit the ones you make public.


Rich: Ha-ha I knew this question was gonna come up, and yeah it can take me a while to sort through the photos that I will actually consider editing and making public.  Just due to the fact that I want to produce only quality work which goes for everything I do. I have a distinctive style to my band work, as many of you may know and that also goes for my other styles of work. As far as the number of photos I take, it usually depends on the band I’m photographing and their stage performance. Energy and crowd reaction/participation can make a big difference with the amount of shots I may take, so I really can’t give you a given number. When it comes to editing my work, I use Adobe Lightroom and perhaps a little Photoshop, if any. You will very rarely see me post band photos in color due to the fact that I hate LED lighting. It is absolutely horrible with the sensors of digital cameras; therefore I do black and white to capture the true moment.


IE: Your passion for photography goes beyond shooting bands. On your website there are plenty of examples of this with a lot of nature as well as urban types of shoots. Can you talk about some of the places you've traveled to and your favorite places you have shot at?


Rich: Yeah absolutely the work I do goes far beyond just photographing bands. My photography has brought me many places and as well as several different countries such as England, Germany, Poland and Iceland and that list will continue to grow as I love to travel to do what I love. My work ranges from urban exploration to landscapes, and night photography. I try to cover it all and not just stay focused on just one subject.  I am not into any kind of portraiture such as weddings etc. It's just not my thing. I just recently got back from a West Coast photo tour with my good friend Oscar Rivera. It was pretty crazy… 11 days, 3,000 miles and non-stop day and night shooting. As far as favorite places to shoot they are all amazing when you’re in good company with lots of laughs and doing what you enjoy.



IE: Living in close proximity to NYC opens you up to a wide range of photo opportunities that may bring you on shoots that are not exactly safe and in some cases even legal. Can you talk about some of your NYC experiences, being out late and some of the encounters you may have had with them.


Rich: Living in close proximity to NYC is cool but the fact that I work there as well has it's up's and downs. Most of the time, even on my days off, I find myself there whether it may be in Manhattan or any of the other boroughs… haha… but it's all good. I make the best of it as I like to explore and photograph from random locations such as tunnels, rooftops and other places that some typically wouldn't find themselves. To me it's all about getting out there and doing what I gotta do to get the shots I want. Sometimes the situations are dangerous but that's also part of the whole experience and when you get those shots you want it makes it all worth it. With NYC also being the home of graffiti, which I’ve always had a passion for, it also brings me to many other odd locations around the city to document this underground culture that is still a heavy hitting movement. It's all about just getting out there.




IE: Ok, geek time now. For other photographers out there can you talk about your photography equipment that you use and which is the best for shooting bands in a dark room which most concerts happen at?


Rich: Well for the most part it comes down to the lens/lenses you are using to shoot with. Primarily you want to use a fast aperture lens like an f2.8 or faster to an f1.4 for low light situations. You will wanna stick to these lenses due to the fact the flash photography within the music scene is a no go, some of the smaller venues may allow it but it is good idea to avoid it if possible. As far as the gear I use for photographing shows, I use either a Canon 5DMII or my Canon 6D which performs very well at hi ISO which you will need when shooting in low light.  As far as my lenses, I use a Sigma 20mm f2.8, Tamron 24-70 f2.8 and my Sigma 70-200 f2.8. These lenses will pretty much cover all venues that you may be shooting at.


IE: What advice would you give to someone reading this that may be thinking about getting into taking photographs at punk and hardcore shows? Thanks for your time Rich.


Rich: Just get out there and follow your passion and enjoy it to the fullest.